Cracking Open a Cocoa Pod for the First Time: Experiencing the Joy of a Monkey | Food Talk x Da Xiao Radio Vol. 26

This episode of “Food Talk” is a crossover with our fellow creators “Da Xiao Dian Bo”, marking our first time collaborating. We join Gusi, the host of “Da Xiao Dian Bo”, and regular guest Nanshan to explore the creative and delicious world of fermented foods.

As the founder of the chocolate brand “Qiaolike”, Nanshan recently brought her chocolates to the “Awaken Life” fermentation market organised by Foodthink, where she met many fellow fermentation enthusiasts and creators.

While chocolate is common, few realise it is actually a fermented food. To explain the intricate process of turning cocoa beans into real chocolate, the hosts turned the recording session into a tasting event—cracking open a cocoa pod to taste the beans for the first time and imagine how fermentation transforms the flavour of this magical fruit.

With her professional training, Nanshan showed us that “everything can be tasted”: even eating an ordinary orange can be an experience if you focus your senses of smell and taste to fully appreciate its aroma and flavour. While ordinary people may not need to master the flavour wheels of coffee and chocolate, this mindful approach to eating brings a different kind of satisfaction.

We also wandered through various topics related to fermentation: What strange fermented foods have people invented around the world? Why does the cheesemaking process remind Gusi, a Beijing native, of *douzhi* (fermented mung bean milk) and *ma doufu* (fermented tofu)? How does a textbook fermentation process ultimately lose out to the complexities of a micro-environment? What is the fascinating link between fermentation and agricultural production? Microbes are always working their magic in places we cannot see.

Finally, Qiaolike shared their new ambition: to grow cocoa pods in Hainan and explore further possibilities for indigenous Chinese chocolate. Stay tuned for this episode and join Foodthink on a wonderful journey into the world of fermented foods!

Guest/s

Nanshan

Regular guest on Da Xiao Dian Bo, founder of Qiaolike Chocolate, authorised “Peru Cocoa Ambassador” by the Commercial Office of Peru, and a Q-grader international coffee quality evaluator. Driven by a passion for gastronomy, she founded Da Xiao Coffee and discovered the whimsical world of cocoa and chocolate. She hopes to convey the charm of the land to more people through the terroir of bean-to-bar chocolate.

Gusi

Host of Da Xiao Dian Bo. Product Manager. Coffee enthusiast (currently drinks more than he speaks); lover of the alcohol-induced atmosphere (attends more parties than he understands); fan of *douzhi* and fermented pickles (the stronger the fermentation, the stronger the curiosity); aspiring fruit vinegar enthusiast (still in the planning stages).

Host/s

Wang Hao

Foodthink editor. A fermentation novice who frequently gives up halfway.

Xiaojing

Loves everything from Maltesers (though now prefers cocoa butter as an adult) to dark chocolate. A bread-fermentation novice who loves watching dough rise into a bouncy, springy texture.

Timeline

00:34 How did it feel for Nanshan to set up a stall with her brand “Qiaolike” at the “Awaken Life” fermentation market?

02:00 Wait, chocolate and coffee are “fermented foods” too?

06:28 Bang! Cracking open a cocoa pod on the spot! What does the pulp taste like?

10:35 How does a cocoa pod, which looks nothing like chocolate, go through “fermentation” to become the raw material for chocolate?

17:05 Cocoa pods, honey, birch sap from Changbai Mountain, tempeh… once humans discovered that “fermented food tastes better”, it seems they tried fermenting everything they could find.

23:16 Recommendation segment: Everyone shares their favourite fermented food from the market.

29:31 Instead of relying on “digital snacks” (videos played during meals), why not try focusing all your attention on the food itself?

32:43 Does chocolate have a flavour wheel similar to specialty coffee?

38:42 Home fermentation tips for beginners: you can actually make your own kombucha and mozzarella at home! We share the detailed methods with you.

43:54 Fermentation ‘kitchen disaster’ moments: why does bread fail to rise when kept next to kombucha? And why are those picture-perfect pickles so salty they taste bitter? In this episode, we dive into the science to uncover the truth.

51:19 The author of *The Fermentation Bible*—a must-read for fermentation enthusiasts—visits China and discovers the incredible variety of fermented foods here. What are the local specialities in your hometown?

52:26 Fermentation was once seen as old-fashioned, overpowering, unhealthy, or even unhygienic. Why is it that we still need fermented foods in our diets today?

54:42 Alternative fermentation: composting. *The Fermentation Bible* notes that regardless of human presence, microbes will continue to forge ahead into the future. Nature is comprised of animals, plants, and microorganisms; humans are merely one part of this system, and we must respect our ‘roommates’ in the natural world.

61:04 Qiaolikke’s new goal: incorporating new fermentation philosophies to explore further possibilities for indigenous Chinese chocolate in Hainan.