The Fermentation Journey of a Chinese French Cheese: From Local Markets to International Awards | Food Talk Vol. 27
In this episode, we’ll take you into the fascinating world of fermented foods—cheese—and introduce the story of Liu Yang, founder of Bleu Cheese, a master cheese artisan from China.
Originally from Beijing and trained in IT, Liu Yang stumbled upon milk churning and cheesemaking while studying in France. This “incredibly stress-relieving” experience sparked a deep love for the craft. During the 2008 Beijing Olympics, he experimented with making cheese at home and shared it with journalists from the French Olympic delegation. That trial run gave him the confidence to launch his own venture. In 2009, Liu Yang opened his own artisan cheese shop, and two years later, he joined the Beijing Organic Farmers Market.
Starting out as a small cheese stall at the Huilongguan agricultural market, Bleu Cheese has blended French tradition with Beijing’s local terroir to craft a unique range of products. Along the way, it has witnessed the dramatic shift in how Chinese consumers embrace cheese. This innovative fusion of cultures has also earned Bleu Cheese numerous awards at international competitions.
With soft-ripened cheeses, blue cheeses, goat’s milk cheeses and so many more on offer, how do we pick our favourite from what can feel like a bit of a mystery? Guest Liu Yang will walk us through the artisan techniques behind each variety.
We’ll also explore the difference between industrial and artisan cheeses: mass-produced varieties typically use pasteurised milk, whereas artisan makers often choose raw milk to preserve beneficial enzymes, resulting in a richer, more complex fermented flavour.
As a distinctive producer crafting over a dozen cheese varieties at once, Bleu Cheese is also navigating the challenge of scaling from a small workshop to a proper production facility. At the same time, the brand is embracing new developments. This year, Liu Yang developed an Alsatian flammekueche using various Bleu Cheese varieties alongside ingredients from small-scale ecological farmers at the Beijing Organic Farmers Market. You can try it at the market’s community hub, ‘Jishi’!
Finally, Liu Yang will share his personal tips for cheese pairing, and join us in exploring a deeper question: why do fermented foods grow richer in flavour and more addictive the more you eat them?
If this episode has whetted your appetite and sparked an interest in fermenting your own foods, be sure to check out the video below to follow Liu Yang’s guide to making beginner-friendly cheeses at home. Mozzarella and ricotta may sound like high-end culinary projects, but they’re actually much easier to make than you’d think!
THIS EPISODE’S GUEST
Liu Yang
Founder of Beijing Bleu Cheese Atelier. Judge for the cheese category at the French Agricultural Competition, China Regional Chair of the World Cheese Society, and recipient of the Knight’s Cross of the Saint-Maure-de-Touraine Cheese Guild. He is dedicated to promoting the culture of artisan cheesemaking.
THIS EPISODE’S HOSTS
Xiao Chao
Former programme officer at Foodthink and a fermentation enthusiast. His home experiments have included kombucha, German sauerkraut, Sichuan pickles, yoghurt, bread and more.
Tian Le
Editor at Foodthink and convenor of the Beijing Organic Farmers Market. Having helped Liu Yang sell cheese for over a decade, he wryly notes that Boss Liu still hasn’t struck it rich.
TIMESTAMPS
01:55 Experimenting with cheese-making at home during the 2008 Olympics, wowing the French journalists who came to cover the Games.
02:31 The first cheese shop: Opened inside a wet market, sandwiched between roasted lamb shanks on one side and phone cards on the other.
04:06 Artisanal versus industrial supermarket cheese: Buying artisanal cheese is like ‘opening a blind box’, likely because the microbial cultures within it are still very much alive.
09:43 Supermarket shelves groan with cheese varieties: soft, hard, goat’s milk, cow’s milk… But how exactly should cheese be classified?
12:12 While studying in France, stumbled upon the craft by helping stir milk and make cheese, and fell head over heels for the industry.
15:28 Beijing Grey, Beijing Blue, Beijing Red… Crafting French-style cheeses using the local terroir of Beijing.
19:04 Half of a cheese’s success lies in its milk. Where to source good milk? By building relationships with local farmers and dairies of all sizes.
21:41 Industrial cheese production typically relies on pasteurised milk to deliver a consistent, mass-market flavour. In contrast, some artisanal makers carefully use unpasteurised milk to preserve its natural enzymes, yielding deeper fermentation profiles and a wider variety of flavours.
24:45 Have you ever considered that the pursuit of consistent flavour in industrial food is, in itself, a form of conditioning our palates?
26:26 Bu Le Cheese Atelier is rare even on the international stage for crafting over a dozen distinct cheeses at once. Yet it faces the challenge of scaling from a workshop to a factory. Is this step necessary? And if so, how should it be navigated?
31:23 What’s new at Bu Le Cheese: Head to their Jishi store near Beijing’s Sanyuanqiao, where you can now enjoy crêpes made with Bu Le cheeses and produce from local farmers’ markets.
39:17 What exactly is the nutritional value of natural cheese? Beyond calcium, protein, and vitamins, the fermentation by beneficial bacteria transforms them into richer, more bioavailable nutrients.
41:47 How exactly should you eat cheese? Boss Liu shares his signature pairing recipes, perfect for both Western and Chinese dishes. Try Beijing Grey with roasted lamb shank—the unexpected harmony makes sense, as fermentation is truly an art of delightful surprises.
48:03 A collaboration between Foodthink and Boss Liu: Did you know that mozzarella whey cheese, which sounds so gourmet, can actually be made at home? Give it a try yourself!
56:53 Why do fermented foods grow on you the more you eat them? Our approach to food choices seems to roll forward, a constant cycle of selection and adaptation. Given that our gut microbiome relies on a dynamic balance between beneficial and harmful bacteria, indulging in quality fermented foods nourishes the good bacteria, ultimately enriching our overall wellbeing.
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Podcast Production Team
Coordination & Production: Xiao Jing
Cover Art: Wan Lin
Music: Ba Nong
Editing: Ze En
Contact Email: xiaojing@foodthink.cn