Cracking Open a Cacao Pod for the First Time: A Monkey’s Joy | Food Talk x Dàxiǎo Diànbō Vol. 26

This episode of Food Talk is a crossover with our fellow podcast Dàxiǎo Diànbō, and our very first crossover ever. Together with Dàxiǎo Diànbō’s host Gǔsì and regular guest Nánshān, we explore the creative and delicious world of fermented foods.

Nánshān, founder of the chocolate brand Qiaoli Ke, has just brought her chocolates to the Foodthink Fermentation Awakening Festival fermentation market, where she met many friends who also make fermented foods, as well as plenty of fermentation enthusiasts.

Chocolate may be commonplace, yet few people realise it is also a fermented food. To explain how cacao beans undergo a complex process to become true chocolate, the hosts of our food podcast turned the recording studio into a tasting session—cracking open a cacao pod, tasting cacao beans for the first time, and imagining how fermentation transforms the flavour of this magical fruit.

Nánshān, with her professional training, showed us what “everything can be savoured” truly means: even when eating an ordinary tangerine, you can focus your senses of smell and taste to fully appreciate its aroma and flavour. Ordinary people may not need to understand coffee and chocolate flavour wheels, but that mindful way of eating can bring a different kind of satisfaction.

Beyond that, we chatted from every corner of the globe about all sorts of fermentation trivia: what peculiar fermented foods have people in different countries invented? Why does the process of making cheese remind Beijing-native Gǔsì of dòuzhī (fermented mung bean drink) and má dòufu (fermented tofu)? How do textbook-style fermentation processes ultimately fall victim to microscopic environments? And what wonderful connections exist between fermentation and agricultural production? Microorganisms are always performing their magic in places we cannot see.

Finally, Qiaoli Ke shared their new goal: growing cacao pods in Hainan and exploring more possibilities for homegrown Chinese chocolate. Tune in to this episode and join Foodthink on a wonderful journey through the world of fermented foods!

This Episode’s Guests

Nánshān

Regular guest on Dàxiǎo Diànbō, founder of Qiaoli Ke chocolate, designated “Peruvian Cacao Ambassador” by Peru’s trade office, and Q Grader international coffee quality assessor. Driven by a boundless love of good food, she founded Dàxiǎo Coffee and Jìnr Speciality Coffee, through which she discovered the fascinating world of cacao and chocolate. She hopes to share the terroir-driven flavours of bean-to-bar chocolate, passing on the magic of the land to more people.

Gǔsì

Host of Dàxiǎo Diànbō. Product manager. Coffee enthusiast—currently drinking more than talking; lover of the ambiance of alcoholic drinks—sampling more than understanding; fan of dòuzhī and pickled vegetables—the heavier the fermentation, the stronger the curiosity; fruit vinegar enthusiast in the head—but hasn’t actually started making any yet.

This Episode’s Hosts

Wáng Hào

Editor at Foodthink. A fermentation beginner who frequently gives up halfway.

Xiǎojīng

Likes everything from Maltesers (though now she’s grown up, she insists on the proper cocoa butter kind) to dark chocolate—a fermentation beginner with a bread obsession who loves watching dough puff up nice and bouncy.

Timeline

00:34 Nánshān set up a stall for her chocolate brand Qiaoli Ke at the Fermentation Awakening Festival market—how did it go?

02:00 Wait—are chocolate and coffee also fermented foods?

06:28 Bang! Cracking open a cacao pod live! What does cacao pulp taste like?

10:35 The cacao pod looks nothing like chocolate—so how does fermentation turn it into the raw material for making chocolate?

17:05 Cacao pods, honey, birch sap from Changbai Mountain, tempeh… Once humans discovered that food tastes even better after fermentation, it seems they’ll try fermenting just about anything.

23:16 Recommendations: each of us picks a fermented food we loved at the market

29:31 We’re so used to pairing meals with “electronic pickled vegetables”—watching videos on a screen while we eat. What if, for once, you put all your attention on the food itself?

32:43 Does chocolate have a flavour wheel like speciality coffee?

38:42 Home fermentation tips for beginners: you can actually make kombucha and mozzarella at home! We walk you through the detailed methods.

43:54 A “kitchen disaster” moment: why does bread placed next to kombucha never rise? And why do beautiful-looking gherkins taste so salty they turn bitter? A Walk Through Science reveals all.

51:19 The author of The Art of Fermentation, beloved by fermentation enthusiasts, visited China and discovered just how rich the country’s fermented-food landscape is. What does your hometown have to offer?

52:26 Fermentation was once seen as old-fashioned, heavy-handed, even unhealthy and unhygienic—so why do we still need to eat fermented food today?

54:42 Unconventional fermentation—composting. The Art of Fermentation has a line that says: whether or not humans exist, microorganisms will keep pushing the world forward. The natural world is made up of animals, plants and microorganisms; humans are just one member among them. We need to respect our fellow “roommates” in nature.

61:04 Qiaoli Ke’s new goal: embracing fresh fermentation ideas and exploring more possibilities for homegrown Chinese chocolate in Hainan.